An interview with IO Richie Dale

Each issue we’ll be speaking to a member of the police conduct family to ask them for their thoughts about the conduct world. For this edition we’ve been able to speak to IO Richie Dale, pillar of Sussex PSD who will be retiring next year after 25 years distinguished service. Here he is in conversation with our John Riddell.Hi Richie, thanks for agreeing to speak to us, can you give our readers a brief introduction?

Hi. I work as an Investigator in the investigations team of the Professional Standards Department in Sussex Police. I receive allegations of police misconduct, be they internally generated or by external complaint, and investigate them according to the regulations set out by the Police Reform Act with an eye to guidance provided by the Home Office and the Independent office for police Conduct (IOPC). 

My ‘stakeholders’ would be complainants, witnesses, internal complainants, accused officers, colleagues who are witnesses, decision makers, the IOPC and occasionally the CPS.

How long have you been doing the job?

I’ve been in post with Sussex PSD for 25 years. Having just turned 60 I am looking forward to, I think well-earned, retirement in 2026. It’s been a fantastic job and role that I will look back on positively. We have a long queue of wannabe PSD investigators but I’m also not sorry to be stopping, more of that later.

My little USP. is that I have never been a police officer. The chances were there but my wife had lost her older brother to the police service when she was just 11 years old. When she saw him again six months later…well to avoid being controversial lets just say that she found he had changed greatly. Mrs Dale was very keen that I did not tread the same path.

How did you get into it?

In the early 90’s I had rocked up at Sussex Police in my mid-twenties as a clerk in a CJU just as the police service was waking up to ‘civilianisation’.  After a spell as a Coroners’ Officer I got the job I really wanted prepping Crown Court Committal bundles, back in a CJU in Worthing. I used to explain that I was paid by Sussex Police but worked for the CPS. Statement taking, case prep, dealing with counsels’ notes, finalising unused material schedules (CPIA) and attending court. 

The role was eventually moved into Worthing CID, initially as a pilot, where everyone seemed to be called Dave and wear a moustache. No one would talk to me, ‘a ‘civvy’, for weeks until a D.S. called me in and thanked me.  The guys had woken up to the fact there was finally someone to answer the phone who knew what they were doing and could do those ‘just jobs’. I did pretty much everything except interview suspects. I think I have a reasonable claim to be the first ever Police Staff investigator in Sussex Police.

Critically, I learnt my investigation skills working backwards i.e. what was required and worked at court. I think this is hugely important. Nothing like enough investigators either in the police or the IOPC are lucky enough to get that experience these days. The IOPC especially and naturally seem to investigate to the ‘case to answer standard,’ in my experience, it’s not enough.

When my kids came along I sadly needed to find better paid work, a couple of attempts to pick up a PSD Civil Claim Investigators role apparently narrowly failed and when a PSD Investigations ‘Caseworker’, role came along in 2000, (we changed job title about 10 years ago)  with the support of my old Worthing D.I. and D.S. both of whom were by then in PSD,  I got the job. I know it raised eyebrows my not having worked as a cop, but I was told they wanted a non-police perspective. I was mentored by a fantastic retired D.I. Derek Hoy to whom I owe so much. He was hard as nails, covered all the detail, was never in a rush and was always turned out immaculately.

What’s the secret of success as an IO?

I’m not sure there is any great science to investigations. You field a set of allegations, you take an account, establish the grievance / crime being alleged. You then recover the accounts and material of the persons who can help unpick and establish the facts and these days crucially, get the relevant BWV / CCTV. You then assess what you’ve got against the law or standards of professional behaviour. The skills I suppose are managing the people, building and maintaining rapport and trust and ensuring the material has been gathered and presented in the correct way ie free of taint. The best investigators cover the detail and don’t give up - tenacity. One of the first things I learnt was the ABC, assume nothing, believe no one, check everything. It still works.

How have things changed in your 25 years?

When I started in PSD we issued ‘reg 7’ notices of investigation to officers under suspicion. We are now up to ‘reg 17’ for the same document reflecting the increasingly regularised regime we now work with. The fundamentals of the job however haven’t changed – see above. We also see a far greater proportion of sexual misconduct, perhaps with social media we are better at finding and evidencing it?

What has it told you about life?

There is nothing like PSD to experience the spectrum of human weakness and skullduggery. We must remember the vast majority of police officers are fantastic human beings, striving to do the right thing in incredibly stressful circumstances with compassion and humanity. Sadly, the service attracts that small proportion of people who join for the wrong reasons usually revolving around the role, the uniform and the power that comes with it. There are also all too many situations where poor mental health and stress are huge factors in what has gone wrong.

Best moment in 25 years?

Asked to nominate a best moment it has to be the day of the verdict after a four-week theft trial at Canterbury Crown Court. We’d started to receive reports of a Gatwick police officer seizing cash from flight passengers at boarding gates and passing fictitious arrangements for recovery upon return to the U.K. It turned out to be a PCSO. We had seven victims and a total of £17000 in cash that was never recovered. Our victims were lovely people, from Turkey, Albania and Vietnam horrified they’d been scammed by someone pretending to be a British police officer. Talk about reputational damage! We teamed up and I got disclosure and exhibits, 800 of the former 120 + of the latter. She fought it all the way and it took that trial, at the height of summer,  but thankfully the jury went with the good guys. She got six and half years and deserved every day. Months of real hard grind and meticulous case preparation finally rewarded.

Worst moment in 25 years?

There haven’t been too many downsides. You get used to being, as a team and department, completely misunderstood and distrusted by the wider work force. Whenever an officer evades the appropriate sanction is a tough day.

If you could change one thing, what would it be?

If I could change one thing it would be to simplify the process by which bent officers are removed from the police service. We are over regulated. The Home Office, no doubt pushed and nudged by the national police federation,  have made it incredibly difficult to achieve dismissals. Gross misconduct proceedings now resemble Crown Court trials. The single most annoying element is character evidence. It is total nonsense that an officer accused of something that invariably their character referees have no knowledge of, is allowed to submit pages of so called evidence where the officers mates,  tell us what a great officer the subject is. We also find increasingly that character is being slipped in before it should.

How would you sum it all up?

There we are. PSD investigations provides fascinating and rewarding work. We too often stumble across genuinely appalling people who have no business wearing a police uniform, undermining the hard work of the great majority. The job though has got so much harder but if a young Investigator or Detective were to ask about my role I’d encourage them to apply, you won’t want for gravity, variety, team work and laughs.

All fascinating stuff Richie, always a pleasure to speak and you’ll know we spend almost as much time talking about sport as work. Knowing my football allegiance how are Nottingham Forest going to do next year?

I was brought up in the football era of Brian Clough who managed my team Brighton & Hove Albion before heading to Forest. Loved Cloughie, can’t stand Forest, who annoyingly rather bullied our lot this season. So, I’m hoping they will have been rumbled for next year, good luck to them in Europe but mid-table at best, up the Albion.

Thanks for joining us Richie, think you’re right about everything apart from the last comment – Champs League next season for sur for the Tricky Trees. Thanks not only for that but all your time over the last few years as the consummate professional. I hope to get down to see you and Mrs Dale to celebrate your retirement and sample a pint of Harveys of Lewes and south cost seafood. Speak soon.